In this episode of Your Life Simplified, host Whitney Reagan, senior wealth advisor, sits down with Jennifer Hanau, national managing director, independent advisors, for a deep dive into the essential qualities of leadership and mentorship. Together, they explore how to advocate for yourself and why it’s crucial to lead yourself first before guiding others. They also discuss strategies for managing up, overcoming imposter syndrome, navigating setbacks, leadership values and finding the right mentorship to propel your career forward.

Transcript:

Whitney Reagan: Development, training, coaching your kids. What do all of these have in common? Leadership. Leadership skills are important for all facets of life, and you will not want to miss the nuggets of wisdom shared by my guest in this episode. So please keep listening.

Welcome, welcome. Thank you for joining us for another episode of Your Life Simplified. I’m Whitney Reagan, senior wealth advisor here at Mariner, and I am very enthused by our guest, Jen Hanau. She is a national managing director and also head of Mariner Independent. Thanks for joining us today, Jen. How are you?

Jennifer Hanau: I’m great. I’m really excited to be here. Thanks for having me.

Whitney: Very, very excited. I am inspired by Jen. We’ve been friends and colleagues, and I feel like she’s been kind of a mentor to me, so today’s topic is right on point.

Jennifer: Well, thank you for those kind words.

Whitney: You’re welcome. So, I also want to say that I’m excited about this episode. We’re going to be talking about leadership and a little bit about mentorship. And it’s very timely because we have two females bantering about leadership and just in a couple days is International Women’s Day, so it’s perfect timing. And I also, I think I wanted to get us loosened up and I just want to do a softball question for you, Jen. Are you reading anything good?

Jennifer: I am currently reading a book called Stolen Focus by Johan Hari, and it’s all about why we all have such a difficult time staying focused. Our attention spans are minimized, and it’s due to a lot of factors. It’s really interesting and also a little bit scary.

Whitney: Yeah, is it something that I can help get to my kids early on with and help them focus?

Jennifer: Absolutely.

Whitney: Audience, take note of that if you want some help focusing. Okay. Let’s get into the real topic at hand. I think this was your idea, talking about leadership. You must be very passionate about it. What was the reason that you wanted to talk about this topic? I mean, I’m equally passionate about it. I love leadership. I’ve always enjoyed learning more leadership skills, but I want to know why it’s important to you.

Jennifer: Leadership is important to me because it means something different to everybody. And for me, my journey has been anything but linear. There’s been lots of twists and turns along the way, and so I’ve really tried to focus and pay attention and be just very intentional about those major ah-has in my career. Not only so that I can continue to keep learning but also so I can help people around me. So today I’m really, really hoping that our audience takes at least one idea and it resonates, either from a place of self-reflection or even helping them as they are on their own leadership journey.

Whitney: Okay, terrific. So, leadership is, it sounds like you’ve had kind of an unconventional path here, which — I always think it’s interesting to hear other people’s journeys on getting to a big finance company. And did you have a finance background?

Jennifer: So, I studied finance. However, I decided to study finance because my aunt was in banking and I saw that she was quite successful, and I wanted to get out of my small town in southern Illinois. I loved growing up there, but I didn’t want to live there. I wanted to be in a city. And so I chose finance. I got to the University of Illinois, had declared my major and realized I didn’t really like finance, nor did I like math, but I had committed — which I do believe [in], and it’s something that we’ll talk about as we progress in this conversation — I committed to doing it, so I stuck with it. And because of that, like I said, it’s been a very non-traditional path. I started with a firm as a registered representative right out of college. Personal financial planning was my favorite class in college.

Whitney: Look at that. You’re at a wealth management firm. I mean, everything happens for a reason. Totally full circle.

Jennifer: Totally full circle. And with that major, I thought that I was really going to be operating in that fiduciary mindset, looking at my clients, understanding goals and ensuring that they were on the right path to achieve those goals. At the time — I’ve been in the business a long time — that was not the intent of the company I was working for. It was a lot about pushing products. It was what was generating the most amount of revenue for that firm. I lasted three months. I tendered my resignation, I sent a note to the president, letting him know everything that I thought was wrong with the company, and then moved into retail.

Whitney: Wow. I feel like that was very bold for your first position. It aligns with leadership. That’s what I’m saying. So I think that I was going to ask this question later, but it sounds like you already knew early on how to advocate for yourself. So, can you maybe share how you learned that and maybe some lessons from it?

Jennifer: Absolutely. Self-advocacy was something I did learn very, very early on. I thought that if I worked hard and I demonstrated success, that I would naturally be rewarded for my efforts, whether it was in the form of compensation or being promoted. That doesn’t happen, not because people don’t want to recognize someone who is dedicated and doing a good job, but [because] everyone’s busy. So I realized that in order for me to move along the trajectory that I wanted to that I needed to really promote myself. And it’s not about bragging. It’s literally just about ensuring that you’re communicating the success and the value that you’re driving for the organization, and when there are opportunities that you’re raising your hand and ensuring that there’s a recognition that you are interested in putting your hat in the ring.

Whitney: And I think you’ve said this before, but celebrating small wins — I love this advocating piece because I didn’t learn it actually until a lot later. It sounds silly, but I thought just for doing a good job and I guess — doing a good job, I would be rewarded for my good job without having to tell people that I was doing a good job. But that’s not how it works.

Jennifer: It’s not. It seems counterintuitive and we also want to ensure that people understand that we’re grateful. So it really is finding that balance, but it is important to advocate for yourself. It’s one of the things that I reinforce to the associates  I get the benefit [of] mentor[ing] on a daily basis.

Whitney: I love that lesson. So, let’s take a step back, and how would you define leadership? Because I did want to ask this, but I thought we were in the right, we were just kind of in a flow there and I wanted to talk about self-advocacy. So how would you define leadership?

Jennifer: So, leadership is complex. Again, I said it means different things to different people. To me, it’s really, really important that you learn how to lead yourself before you can effectively lead others. And what I really mean by that, it’s about developing emotional intelligence, it’s about discipline and it’s about accountability. When I say that it’s about accountability, it’s about doing the things that you say you’re going to do. People want to follow leaders that they trust and that they can rely on. And so for me, integrity really is everything. It’s the way that I show up every day and then creating an environment where I’m empowering others around me to do the same thing.

Whitney: There’s a lot of little nuggets that I just want to emphasize here. Okay. So, lead yourself first, let’s unpack that a little bit. How can you tell our audience what you mean by that? Because, again, I’ve been through this journey of trying to find my own leadership style, and I think a lot of times I fail or fail at taking care of myself first. And even when it goes back to taking care of small children, you really need to take care of yourself first. It’s like, what is it, on the airplane, you’re supposed to put your mask on first before you put the mask on your kids. And it’s just kind of in that same vein, reminding yourself you need to take care of yourself first. Lead yourself first before you can go and successfully lead others.

Jennifer: It’s critical. It’s about doing the hard things. It’s about doing the things that are easy to say. I don’t really feel like doing that today. So, to your point, exercising, practicing mindfulness, making sure that we’re sleeping enough — those all form the foundation of what’s needed to be able to show up as our best self each and every day. And so doing the hard things is, in my mind, at the forefront of what’s needed to be an effective leader. And not only do you need to do the hard things but then you have to follow through.

Whitney: Exactly. You nailed it on the head. I think exemplifying it for your team, if you’re leading a team of people, then you have to show that you’ve already done those hard things and they can follow. I mean, they need to trust in you that you are also doing those things that you’re suggesting that they do.

Jennifer: Absolutely.

Whitney: So okay, I have some notes here because I didn’t want to forget some of these questions that I really wanted to ask you about. I know that you’ve talked a little bit about managing up, and I think this is an interesting topic because when I have had this conversation with either interns or direct reports or people that I might be managing, it’s important to manage up because I want to learn. I want you guys to help me out. But from the opposite side of that, it sounds a lot harder to try and manage up to somebody that might be higher on the totem pole, so to say, or they’re your boss. You don’t want to make them mad. So how can you tell maybe the audience how to manage up or what that means to you?

Jennifer: Sure. When I say managing up, it’s not in the traditional sense of actually managing your boss. I agree. Terrible idea. It’s more about demonstrating how you can add value both to the team as well as your boss. So really understanding the landscape where you can add value. And most good managers really want to surround themselves with people who have good ideas and have solutions and are proactive in their approach. So, it really is about shifting the mindset, not waiting for permission but instead being, again, it’s about being proactive

Whitney: And showing your —Okay, I want to dig into that a little bit more too. Again, you have so many good nuggets in here. I’m already inspired! So, showing your value. I love the way that you say that because anybody can do this no matter where you are, what you’re doing. If you have a passion and you feel like, okay, I want that position, or I want to be a part of this project, all you have to do is show that you can add value in some way, find some gap that you can add value that’s not already being shown. And it doesn’t have to be that you are on the same level as them in any way. It’s just how are you showing value or how are you adding value? I just love that line because I think that it’s so powerful.

Jennifer: Thank you. And it’s also about asking. I am such a firm believer that if you don’t ask the question, the answer is no because people can’t read minds. You can’t be afraid to ask.

Whitney: Yes, I am very well known as a question master, and I think I’ve come to the point where I annoy people sometimes, but I at least asked,

Jennifer: That’s what it’s all about. It really is.

Whitney: Okay. So you also had said — I just want to go back because I remembered that you said all about integrity, and I feel like you, I’m a big proponent of the StrengthsFinder. I’ve probably said it on this podcast many times, but it sounds like you’re probably high in responsibility because you feel very much you want to do what you say you were going to do, and I think that that’s important. But why is it so meaningful to you to do what you say you’re going to do?

Jennifer: It’s because that’s what people want. If you don’t do what you say you’re going to do, people aren’t going to trust you. You’re going to lose credibility. And those are things that you can’t get back. Once they’re gone, they’re gone. And I think that we’ve all been in situations in our life, in our career, where we’ve committed to doing things, and then later on, it’s like, why did I say that I would do that? Where you really don’t want to do it. But it really is one of my personal values that I am really very strict with myself on that if I say I’m going to do it, I do it.

Whitney: So, just building that trust. So, I’m going to shift for a second, and I want to talk a little bit about imposter syndrome, just because I think being female and it being the month of International Women’s Day and all that awareness, I love our banter here, but I think that there is a common theme across female leaders that there’s a time when you feel that imposter syndrome or either — I’ve definitely felt that I am not sure that I belong here or I’m not sure I have what it takes to be here, or how did I get here? That type of feeling. Have you had that, and do you have any, I don’t know, just lessons that you could share?

Jennifer: Absolutely. I mean, I think everyone has experienced it at one point or another. To your point, why am I here? How did I get here? Do I belong here? Am I worthy? And for me, I have a mantra that I say to myself, and I actually say it out loud, which might be a little strange, but for me, it’s really, really effective. And that is, “If not me, then who?” Because I know that I’m qualified, I know that I’m capable and I know that I’ve earned the career that I have now. And so, by reminding myself of that, by saying, “If not me, then who?” it totally changes my mindset. The other thing that I do is that I prepare. I do not show up and fly by the seat of my pants. I do research. I often will prepare questions in advance of meetings that I’m a little unsure of just because then I have the confidence going in that I’m going to be able to facilitate a really productive conversation.

Whitney: Yes. And when we were kind of preparing for this conversation, we both were talking about how preparation is key for us. And for everybody, it’s different, but I think that I would lose my mind if I came in here and I just tried to wing it.

Jennifer: Oh, I’ve tried.

Whitney: I think I’ve tried and crashed and burned. That’s another good lesson though, learning from mistakes and you learned, okay, next time I’m going to be over-prepared. And now we’re having a beautiful conversation. I agree. So, one thing I also wanted to touch on was mentors in the past or who’s inspired you in the past, and I feel like you told me a couple, [that] you’ve had some really great mentors and that you also had some really good advice. Do you want to maybe share a little bit about that?

Jennifer: I have been very fortunate in my career to have really amazing mentors, and often they were not official or assigned to me. We sort of found one another just through, I don’t really believe in happenstance, but in some cases, it felt like that, where we were almost like peer mentors to one another. In another situation, I’ve had managers who are tremendous mentors, but the best piece of advice that I have received in my career is to come prepared with a solution, not just identifying a problem. And I think back to early in my career—

Whitney: Wait, say that one more time because I think this is very, very important and I love it so much.

Jennifer: Always come prepared with a solution. Don’t just identify a problem because I mean, in our careers, there are often a lot of challenges that are presented to us, and there’s often not a clear answer. And so early in my career, I was deferential. I felt like that there were people who were more qualified to think through what the best path forward would be, and my manager, who was certainly a mentor, said to me, Jen, don’t come to me with a problem. Come to me with proposed solutions. Then we can think through the path forward together. It benefited him, it benefited me. There was a lot of growth through that, and it was transformative to my career. And now sitting in the position that I’m in, I ask the same thing of my team. Please come to me and we can even talk through various solutions. If you’re not comfortable presenting one, that’s fine, but take the time to think critically. Don’t just come to me and ask the question.

Whitney: I love that advice because there’s a lot of ways that you can identify or give feedback or identify some kind of hole in a product or gaps in something, but actually coming with a solution I think shows that you’re giving that extra level of energy and work.

Jennifer: I agree.

Whitney: So, some of the best advice that I’ve been given, I was just thinking about best advice, was let go of anything that’s out of your control.

Jennifer: It’s a good one.

Whitney: Right? So hard. I mean, it took me years to actually be able to do it, but that’s something that is really good advice. This is kind of a, do you have any bad advice that you were given or did you just let it go,

Jennifer: Whitney.

Whitney: Yes?

Jennifer: The worst advice I have ever been given was in order to be taken seriously in a business meeting, a woman must wear a pantyhose. So thank goodness we have progressed far beyond that today.

Whitney: I know! We’re even business casual.

Jennifer: And comfortable!

Whitney: And comfortable and having a great time! Oh, my gosh. Okay. I can’t. Okay. So we’ve talked about best advice. We’ve talked about worst advice. What about navigating some setbacks or any kind of — I think it’s important when you talk about leadership development, overcoming challenges. So can you talk about any kind of setback that you have as a good example?

Jennifer: Sure. I have plenty.

Whitney: Me too.

Jennifer: I think that we all probably do. The one that really comes to mind for me that I think illustrates—

Whitney: And one thing I’ll just say— I don’t mean to interrupt you, but I think it takes an enormous amount of vulnerability to be a really good leader. And I think that you have that, and I think showing vulnerability and really being open with yourself and with others is a true leadership skill.

Jennifer: Oh, thank you.

Whitney: So, I just wanted to say that because you said I have a lot, and I think we all do, but I think showing that and being able to talk about it is really good.

Jennifer: Thank you. I was recruited by — I was working for one of the largest custodians. I was very successful. I had a role where I was living in Chicago reporting in to San Francisco, which is where headquarters was. I was responsible for all of the national relationships at that custodian. I was recruited by a competitive firm to come in and build out a relationship management team, and as part of that, I would start working with some of the larger relationships in the region. Why this was so attractive to me is I had a two-year-old at the time. I was traveling the country on the road pretty much five days a week. When I would come home, as an aside, my son would cry when my nanny would leave.

Whitney: That’s hard.

Jennifer: Getting the opportunity— it was brutal. I wanted to fire her even though I loved her because I just really had — it was just a very conflicting and emotional time for me.

Whitney: I get it. I have a six-, a four- and a one-year-old, so I understand having to leave and not being there sometimes. It’s really hard on your emotional, on an emotional level, but also you’re trying to do, be all things to all people, and it turns out not very good in any of them.

Jennifer: Here’s what I’ll say to you, Whitney, is that looking back, and even today, me traveling is the best thing for my family. It enables my husband to be able to parent the way that he wants to parent without my influence. It has allowed him to build really special relationships with my kids. I believe in the power of missing one another. So I am so grateful for my travel, but back then it was really, really hard, and so this opportunity to move and be more local — I would still travel, but not to the extent that I was.

My perception was that this was going to be a relatively easy transition for me. It was the same role that I was doing, except the clients were far less complex. It was a new company but the same job. I got introduced to a firm and I was in my introductory meeting, and I was talking [about] how I like to work with my firms and made a comment that my goal is to partner with my firms so that I earn a seat at the table. Well, one of the gentlemen who was sitting around the table interrupted me and looked at me in front of everyone and said, “You will never be a partner. My partners are around this table and you are not one of them. So please don’t ever use that term in my presence again.”

Whitney: Wow.

Jennifer: It was a moment —

Whitney: That was gut-wrenching.

Jennifer: It was. However, I just kept going. I acknowledged what he had said and then just kept going because to stop and really spend time diving into it wasn’t the right way to handle the situation. Fast forward, a few years later, I was able to facilitate a strategic planning session for that same firm. Now, the individual who had admonished me was no longer there — and I am a believer in karma — but the way I got from the meeting to facilitating a strategic planning meeting with the same firm, again, it was back to, what are the quick wins? How can I really develop an internal network at my new firm so that the whole village can show up for these clients and really produce an experience like they had not ever seen before? And I was successful at doing that, and it was about me believing enough in myself that I wasn’t going to let one doubter hold me back.

Whitney: Wow, talk about overcoming a major setback. I mean, you overcame it but then just blew past it. You were facilitating a five- to 10-year strategic plan, forward-looking after they told you weren’t going to be a partner or have a seat at the table.

Jennifer: I felt very validated.

I was going to say, that must feel really good. That’s a good success story too, and just overcoming challenges and keeping down the path of celebrating small wins and pushing forward and just not looking back. So, I have just two final questions, and I’ll make these quick because, I mean, this has been — I could talk to you for hours. This has been so — just, I love this topic, and I love talking to you. We talked a little bit about being moms, and I think about this a lot because, yeah, it’s kind of an internal dilemma for me currently, and it sounds like it was for you in the past, but I am so proud of being a mother, but I’m also so proud and very career driven. How do you balance, and do you have any advice for emerging leaders?

Jennifer: There’s no such thing as balance. That’s really, I think, the answer, right? It’s about understanding that you need a support system, and you need to be intentional with how you spend your time. And sometimes it’s going to be the career that really requires the time, and sometimes it’s going to be the family. But I do think that parenting requires a lot of the same skills as leadership. It requires discipline. It requires patience. It requires being present. It requires a lot of the same skills. And so, my kids are 15 and 10, and we talk a lot about the virtues and what types of skills are needed just in life to really set ourselves up for success.

Whitney: I can’t wait to have those conversations with my kids. Right now, I feel like it’s so chaotic, I don’t even know where my head’s at.

Jennifer:  Yes, well, went through all that, it’s still chaotic. In terms of emerging leaders, what I would say to an emerging leader is, find your own leadership style. There is nothing — people can see through it when you’re trying to be someone that you’re not. So pay attention to when you feel energized, when you feel like you’re getting through to someone, when you feel like you’re succeeding, and really lean into that. Don’t try to emulate others.

Whitney: No, and I think I wanted to touch on that too is really be authentic and true to yourself, and everybody’s motivated by different things, so lean into what you’re motivated by but also mold your leadership style to the people that you’re leading because they all learn differently and are motivated differently too.

Jennifer: So well said.

Whitney: Okay, so I’ll leave it open to you. Do you have any lasting thoughts or lessons for our audience?

Jennifer: So there are two last thoughts that I will leave you with as you are contemplating big decisions. Something that’s been very effective for me is to challenge myself, am I running from, or am I running to? If we’re running away from something, often that will lead us away from our long-term goals. Granted, we might be able to relieve some short-term pain, but it’s not often that you see that there’s alignment if you’re running away. Whereas, if you’re running to because you’re excited about an opportunity or you just see something that is getting you motivated to make a big move then, to me, it makes the decision that much easier. So those are questions I really will think long and hard about.

Whitney: That’s relatable, too. Is it giving you energy, or is it sucking the energy out of you?

Jennifer: Yes.

Whitney: So you can think about it in either way that works for you.

Jennifer: Absolutely. And then finally, I will say that one of the reasons that I feel so at home here at Mariner is because we all live by the Mariner values, which are carrying abundance, belonging, keeping our promises, excellence, optimism. These are things that I feel like we all as humans should challenge ourselves to live up to every day, but certainly as leaders.

Whitney: I 100% agree. I love our values, and I think that we have a really amazing culture of leadership and we have some amazing leaders too. The best.

Jennifer: Yes!

Whitney: Okay, so this has been really fun. Jen Hanau, thank you so much for being our guest on our show. I hope that you come back. We’ll have you again. I’ll have you anytime. And thanks to the audience for listening or watching. If you liked what you heard today and if you like to hear more from someone like Jen or myself, please like, subscribe or hit follow wherever you listen to your podcast, and I hope you have a great rest of your week.

The views expressed in this podcast are for informational and educational purposes only and do not consider any individual personal, financial, legal, or tax situation. As such, the information contained herein intended and should not be construed as a specific recommendation, individualized tax, legal, or investment advice. Where specific advice is necessary or appropriate, individuals should contact their own professional tax and investment advisors or other professionals regarding their specific circumstances and needs prior to taking any action. Based upon this information, the information provided has been obtained from sources deemed reliable. However, the accuracy, completeness, and reliability cannot be guaranteed. Tax laws are subject to change either prospectively or retroactively. Any opinions expressed are subject to change at any time without notice. There is no assurance that any investment plan or strategy will be successful. Investing involves risk, including the possible loss of principle. Past performance is no guarantee of future results, and any opinion expressed herein should not be viewed as an indicator of future performance.

Mariner is the marketing name for the financial services businesses of Mariner Wealth Advisors, LLC and its subsidiaries. Investment advisory services are provided through the brands Mariner Wealth, Mariner Independent, Mariner Institutional, Mariner Ultra, and Mariner Workplace, each of which is a business name of the registered investment advisory entities of Mariner. For additional information about each of the registered investment advisory entities of Mariner, including fees and services, please contact Mariner or refer to each entity’s Form ADV Part 2A, which is available on the Investment Adviser Public Disclosure website. Registration of an investment adviser does not imply a certain level of skill or training.